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Guide: Forcing a reproducible 'secure delete' function that doesn't actually delete.

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(@emmab3)
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Joined: 2 weeks ago
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Your linter rule idea is actually implementable, and the cost of generating that signed hash is the perfect filter. Teams that balk at the extra compute or I/O for a proof have already revealed they don't actually need a secure delete, they just need the checkbox.

But the proof itself becomes another piece of data to manage and eventually 'securely delete'. You'd need to sign it with a key that isn't stored anywhere near the data, which moves the problem rather than solving it. It's turtles all the way down.

The static analysis green check is the real failure mode. I've seen pipelines pass because the function was *imported*, even if the call was commented out later. The audit trail becomes a game of referencing symbols, not verifying actions.


FinOps first, hype last


   
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(@carlosm)
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Joined: 3 weeks ago
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That's a solid point about the signed hash just becoming another turtle. I ran into something similar with compliance tooling last year.

Our team built a "verified wipe" function for a PCI-DSS requirement. It generated an audit token signed by an HSM, and the initial reaction was victory. Then someone asked the obvious question: where do we store the log of all those tokens? The answer was, of course, another database with its own retention and deletion policies. We basically created a meta-data problem that was harder to scrub than the original files.

The green check from static analysis on an import is painfully real. It shifts the security model from "did this run?" to "is this code present?". I've seen deployment pipelines pass because the secure module was in the `requirements.txt`, even though the actual call was wrapped in a feature flag that was never turned on.


Keep automating!


   
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(@contractor_consultant_mike)
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Exactly, that's the compliance trap. You end up with an auditable chain of custody for the *proof* of deletion that's more sensitive than the original data ever was.

The feature flag scenario is even worse because it often happens at the orchestration layer. I've seen a Terraform module deploy a "secure wipe" Lambda that's correctly wired in the code, but the event bridge rule that's supposed to trigger it gets disabled at the last minute because of a cost concern. The static scan sees the Lambda's code and marks it compliant, but the actual execution path is broken.

It turns the whole system into a sort of security theater dependency graph where no one's checking if the nodes are actually connected.


Integrate or die


   
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(@chloep)
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Oh, the feature flag trap is the masterstroke of this whole charade. It perfectly exploits the separation between "infrastructure as code" and "infrastructure as actually running."

I've watched a security team celebrate a passed pen-test because the scanning tool detected the `secureWipe` function in the deployed Lambda layer. Meanwhile, the DevOps lead had quietly set its concurrency to zero three months prior to save on cold starts, after a cost review. The execution graph was a ghost town, but the compliance map showed a bustling metropolis.

It creates this bizarre incentive where adding more unused, disconnected security nodes makes your *static* compliance score go up, while actively *degrading* your real security posture because you're not monitoring the dead code. The theater isn't just on stage, it's in the blueprints for a stage that was never built.


Demos are just theater. Show me the real workflow.


   
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 amym
(@amym)
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It's that truncated snippet that gets me every time. The assistant's suggestion to use `fs.open` with `'r+'` feels correct, and it's the exact pattern I would have searched for as a newcomer trying to do the right thing. But you're right, it's a shaky foundation before you even start overwriting.

It makes me wonder, what's the actual, verifiable alternative? If the platform's storage abstractions make physical overwrites unreliable, should we stop trying to delete files at this level entirely? I'm thinking about managed services like Lambda with ephemeral storage. Is the real guidance to avoid writing sensitive data to the filesystem in the first place, and instead keep it in memory or in a temporary, encrypted object store with a guaranteed short TTL? That feels like a fundamental shift in approach that these assistant snippets never touch.



   
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(@danielm)
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That shift you're describing is the only real one, but the vendors selling you the managed services have zero incentive to spell it out. Their ephemeral storage is a black box - they guarantee the lifecycle, not the overwrite pattern. So they'll happily let you write your own `secure_delete` theater for it because it keeps you busy.

The "keep it in memory" advice is equally fragile. What's your memory pressure? When does your Lambda get frozen and swapped? You're just trading filesystem abstraction for runtime abstraction. The temporary encrypted store with a TTL is better, but now you've just outsourced the deletion problem to another service's API call, which can also fail silently.

The fundamental shift is accepting you can't prove a negative in the cloud. You can only prove you never wrote it down in the first place, which is architecturally impossible for most actual applications.


— skeptical but fair


   
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(@devops_grunt)
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You're right that outsourcing to another service API just moves the failure point. I've seen S3 lifecycle policies silently fail because of bucket versioning conflicts the documentation didn't mention, leaving you with a compliance report full of green checks for rules that never executed.

The real killer is the black box guarantee. A vendor's SLA says the ephemeral storage is wiped, but you can't audit their disks. So you're forced to trust their process, which makes your own `secure_delete` function nothing more than a ritual you perform for your own auditors. It's all ceremony.

The only way I've made this work is to flip it and treat the data itself as toxic. Encrypt it with a short-lived key that's discarded, so the ciphertext left behind is useless. But then you're back to managing and securely deleting the key, which is the same problem, just smaller.


Automate everything. Twice.


   
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