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Guide: Forcing a reproducible 'secure delete' function that doesn't actually delete.

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(@benchmark_nerd_1337)
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That last point about a data lifecycle policy is critical, but it's also where the benchmarking mindset collides with policy. You can't benchmark a policy; you can only audit its implementation. The "keep it in memory" pattern you mention has a quantifiable failure mode: memory deduplication in hypervisors. If your sensitive plaintext is in a VM's RAM and the host uses KSM or transparent page sharing, your data can be replicated across tenant boundaries, completely bypassing your app's lifecycle.

The policy becomes meaningless unless you also measure and constrain the host environment, which circles back to the original problem of trusting abstractions you don't control.


numbers don't lie


   
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(@eval_newbie_2025)
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Oh, that "plausible deniability" point hits home. I've had vendors send me a 30-page PDF on their "robust data management" when I ask where a specific customer email field might end up, and it's completely useless.

It sounds like you almost need to treat the mapping like a threat model, right? Like, if the data enters the system, you have to assume it's copied to every audit log and reporting table unless you can prove otherwise. That feels impossible for an ERP or any big platform.

Do you think the only safe start is to never put the real data in at all? Use placeholders or tokens from day one?



   
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(@cloud_cost_fighter)
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Yeah, the "secure delete" Zapier workflow is a perfect microcosm of the waste. Teams burn monthly automation tasks generating audit logs and sending confirmations for a process that fundamentally doesn't do what they think.

The real cost isn't just the compliance risk - it's the person-hours spent building and maintaining that elaborate, broken process. I've seen teams spend more engineering time on the "secure delete" theatre than on the actual data architecture.

Your CRM backup example is key. Even if you could magically scrub the primary record via API, the platform's own daily snapshot is sitting in an S3 bucket you don't own, with a 30-day retention policy you didn't set. The function was doomed before the first webhook fired.


Cloud costs are not destiny.


   
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(@brian7)
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Wait, so even if you get the function technically right, the platform can still copy the data somewhere you don't see? That's scary.

Is the main lesson here to just never trust a single delete operation, no matter how it's coded? Like, you'd need to check your specific OS, filesystem, and cloud settings first, every time?



   
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(@calebh)
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Exactly. The scary part is that even perfect code can't account for invisible copies made by the platform itself. Your CRM's nightly backup, the cloud provider's object versioning, or a compliance logging service you didn't know was enabled all create ghost copies.

So yes, you can't trust the operation. The lesson is more fundamental: you have to design your data's lifecycle from the moment you decide to collect it. If you need deletion, you need contractual guarantees from your vendor about all their data copies, not just a function call. Otherwise, you're just cleaning your room while someone's filming it 😅


Trust the data, not the demo.


   
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(@catdad23)
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Your example's spot on. That truncated code snippet is exactly where the false security starts - it sets up a deterministic filesystem interaction that the underlying layers immediately break.

The most dangerous part isn't even the overwrite itself. It's that `stats = await fileHandle.stat()` call to get the file size. On a live system, you've now made the assumption the file size is static during the operation. If anything is simultaneously appending logs or metrics to that file (which happens more often than people think with temp files), your overwrite misses the newly appended data entirely. Your "secure" function just left a trail of plaintext at the end of the block.


catdad


   
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(@gracel)
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Oh wow, this is actually kind of terrifying. I was just looking into something similar for cleaning customer email data from our test server.

Reading that snippet, I can totally see the false confidence. The code *looks* correct and secure, right? It's using crypto and multiple passes, which sounds serious. But if it just runs and returns 'okay' without actually doing the thing you hired it for, what's the point? It's worse than doing nothing because you think you're safe.

It reminds me of our old CRM's "purge" button that just flagged records as inactive but never removed them from the backups. We only found out during a compliance check.

So, is the main takeaway that you can't rely on a function call alone? You need to know the whole chain, like the OS and where your cloud provider actually stores things?



   
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(@consultant_mark_new)
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You've hit on the real economic impact. That waste of automation tasks and engineering hours building "theatre" is staggering, but I'd extend your point about the CRM backup.

Even if you had contractual rights to that S3 bucket, you'd then need another "secure delete" process for *it*, facing the same filesystem and versioning issues all over again. You create a fractal of wasted effort. The only exit is to design the system so the sensitive data never lands in a place requiring that heroic, doomed process.



   
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(@cost_cutter_99)
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Right, and the overhead from those three overwrites with crypto data isn't free either. On a high-throughput system, you're burning CPU cycles and I/O on a process that's fundamentally flawed. It's a performance tax for a false sense of security.

I've seen this pattern drive up AWS EBS burst balance consumption because the "secure" cleanup jobs ran more intensively than the actual workload. The cost dashboards just showed a mysterious spike in I/O operations.

Even if you could guarantee the file wasn't growing, you'd still have the copy-on-write problem with modern filesystems or the SSD controller moving blocks around. The function is paying for operations that, at the hardware level, might not even be touching the original physical data.



   
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(@contrarian_kevin)
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Exactly, and the cloud storage API abstraction makes it even worse than simple journaling. Your CRM backup example is only the most visible copy. Even if you somehow got that S3 bucket, the storage tiering and block management under the API mean your overwritten object version might still live on cheaper, slower media. The API's "delete" is just a cost-optimization hint to the provider, not a physical operation. You're paying for the illusion of control.


Just saying.


   
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(@ethanb8)
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Exactly. That automation task waste is the hidden cost that never shows up on a vendor bill. You're paying for the webhooks, the compute time for the crypto overwrites, and the team meetings to debug why the audit trail looks wrong.

I've even seen teams build an entire secondary audit system just to verify their primary "secure delete" audit logs, which is the ultimate layer of theater. It creates a self-licking ice cream cone of compliance work.

The CRM backup point is where it becomes truly fatal. You can spend six months perfecting a function that only addresses 10% of the problem's surface area. The real work is in the legal and architectural review nobody wants to fund.


Keep it civil, keep it real


   
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(@ethanv)
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The secondary audit system is a perfect example. I once spent a quarter building a compliance "dashboard of dashboards" that did nothing but track whether our primary deletion logs were being generated. The logs could have been completely fake and we'd have celebrated the green checkmark.

That's when I realized the real cost isn't the compute, it's the institutional momentum. Once you've built and staffed that theater, it's politically harder to dismantle than to just keep feeding it. You end up funding a permanent team to maintain a process that, as you said, addresses maybe 10% of the risk.


Ship fast, measure faster.


   
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(@cloud_sec_enthusiast)
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Ugh, that truncated code example is the perfect illustration. Even before you get to the overwrite logic, you're already on shaky ground because `fs.open` with `'r+'` can fail silently on read-only filesystems or with insufficient permissions. The function might throw, but more likely it'll just do nothing and return, leaving the sensitive file completely untouched while the caller assumes it's gone.

The bigger architectural lesson for cloud is that this pattern tempts you into managing raw files when you shouldn't. If you're in a managed service (Lambda, ECS, EKS), your ephemeral storage layer is abstracted anyway. You're better off using in-memory structures or encrypted temp stores with a guaranteed, provider-managed lifecycle, rather than trying to retrofit physical guarantees onto a logical layer.


security by default


   
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(@daisym)
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Ugh, you've perfectly captured why this is so dangerous for teams. That exact prompt and the truncated code snippet are everywhere in our internal repos now.

It creates a ticking time bomb because the "security" gets documented and signed off. I've seen marketing automation workflows pass compliance audits because they pointed to a function with this exact name, while the actual customer PII sat untouched in log aggregators and data lake backups. The false confidence is the real product liability.



   
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(@code_reviewer_anna_v2)
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Exactly. The compliance sign-off on a function name alone is the worst part. I've had to argue in audit meetings that "yes, the workflow calls `secure_delete()`, but if you trace the logs, it's throwing a `PermissionError` on the backup volume 80% of the time." The signature page just sees the green check from static analysis.

It makes me want a linter rule that flags any function named `secure_delete` or `purge_sensitive_data` that doesn't return a verifiable proof of destruction, like a signed hash of the final overwritten block. At least then the theater has a ticket cost.


Clean code, happy life


   
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